'Lucifer' Bosses on Season 5A Finale Showdown, God's Arrival and Deckerstar's Future (Exclusive)


Showrunners Ildy Modrovich and Joe Henderson break down the biggest devilish moments from the first half of season 5.

Spoiler alert! Do not proceed if you have not watched the first eight episodes of Lucifer season 5. Read what Lesley-Ann Brandt had to say about Maze's dramatic turn.

Lucifer has some explaining to do to God, er, Dad.

In the season 5A finale, cheekily titled "Spoiler Alert," Lucifer (Tom Ellis) faced off in an epic showdown against his own evil twin brother, Michael (also Tom Ellis), in a climactic fight that was ceremoniously interrupted by the long-awaited arrival of Dad -- the one and only enigma that is God (played by Dennis Haysbert). 

"That's enough," says God, suddenly appearing midway through the scuffle with a knowing glint in his eye. "Dad...," a stunned Lucifer says, a look of astonishment and shock evident on his face. "Children, you know I hate it when you fight," God replies with a smirk, his introduction to Earth sparking a flurry of questions for the second half of season 5 to address.

It's a fight that's been brewing ever since Michael came into the picture. Jealous of Lucifer's life in Los Angeles (and more broadly, on Earth), Michael was intent on messing it all up for the Lord of Hell. From Maze (Lesley-Ann Brandt) seemingly teaming up with Michael after he promised her a soul to Dan (Kevin Alejandro) finally learning Lucifer's true identity to Lucifer almost saying "I love you" back to Chloe (Lauren German) before Amenadiel froze time and all hell broke loose, season 5B -- which picks up immediately after the midseason finale -- is bound to be devilishly delicious.

ET's Katie Krause caught up with showrunners Ildy Modrovich and Joe Henderson to break down the climactic fight between Lucifer and Michael, what God's arrival means for the estranged brothers, whether Lucifer will ever say "I love you" to Chloe and much more. 

ET: Lucifer ended its first half of season 5 with a mega showdown between Michael and Lucifer. You have Amenadiel on Team Lucifer and you have Maze, who's on Team Michael right now. Then God show up. Can you walk me through those final moments and what you wanted the viewers to feel watching that? Is Maze really Team Michael?

Ildy Modrovich: She is. We really thought a lot about this fight because how fun to have all of our celestials fight each other? We've had, I think, one fight between Amenadiel and Lucifer once, but it's kind of like a superhero battle. But with our stunt coordinators John Medlen and Vlad Rimburg, they really are the ones who take our emotional moments [and make them sing]. It's all about, OK, we definitely want the moment of surprise when, Oh s***, Maze is not on our team. She's actually on Michael's. We can walk through all those emotional beats and then they're the ones that choreograph these incredibly amazing moments. 

Joe Henderson: And Kevin [Alejandro] shot the s*** out of it. 

Modrovich: The only thing we knew from the very beginning of the season is that when God came in, we did want it to feel like there's this badass epic battle. Suddenly he's walking in on his kids, you know, wrestling in the living room. And he's like, "Children..." We wanted to diminish that moment into just brothers and sisters poking at each other. I think that was achieved by everyone involved.

Henderson: To your question about Maze. To me, Maze isn't Team Michael, she's Team Maze. She feels Lucifer betrayed her because he kept a secret from her. So it was important for us for Maze to not necessarily be disloyal because she feels like the disloyalty started with Lucifer. But instead, to feel like she needs something. So much of her journey is this feeling of soullessness and this feeling of never being loved. When Michael dangles an answer to the question she's been dealing with, that becomes the thing, which is, "Well, Lucifer lied to me. This guy's offering me at least a chance at something that I've always wanted. So, you know what, I'll take the bird in the hand."

Modrovich: Yeah, she feels alone. She feels abandoned before she ever does some abandoning herself.


Is the friendship salvageable between her and Lucifer?

Henderson: Nope. (Laughs.)

Modrovich: They kill each other in episode 9. The end. I think that's the fun thing between Maze and Lucifer is that they always go back and forth. They are like brother and sister in that they have this rich history where they clearly love each other, but Lucifer has learned a lot in how he's treated her and taken her for granted in the past. He's made baby steps in giving her the respect she deserves and she has started asking for it more. There's always room to mend [that friendship].

Henderson: Sounds like a great 5B story. 

Let's talk about the appearance of God. How will his presence shake things up in 5B? Why was that fight the moment you wanted to bring him in? 

Henderson: So much of our show is big, crazy ideas but written small. It's angels, devils and demons, but it's really brother and sister. Even though we had our biggest celestial superhero battle ever, we wanted to end it on kids squabbling in the living room. This is a family story. Dad's home and he's not happy with what his kids have been up to. That is so much of what we will explore in 5B is just that family relationship, and the emotional aspects of that. So much of what has come up until this moment has been everyone interpreting what their father wants. Everyone trying to guess at that. Everyone trying to live up to those expectations. Whether or not they're actually the expectations their father has because he works in mysterious ways. Now he's finally here and so much of it is going to be these children deciding which questions to ask and how he chooses to answer them. That will be part of the fun of it. 

Modrovich: The trick was to still try to keep him somewhat enigmatic. I think we found -- hopefully you will feel this way -- the answer in finding what God had to contend with. We didn't just want God showing up and being like, "Let me help you." What is he going through? What does he have to learn or what's going to change in him by being on Earth?

Let's talk about Chloe and Lucifer for a minute because right before time froze, he was maybe about to say "I love you." Was he about to? 

Henderson: He was going to say, "I love lamp," because there was a lamp right behind Chloe and he just looked at that and he... loves Anchorman

He wasn't actually going to say it? 

Henderson: That is quite a good question. That will be a big part of the first episode back of season 5B is what he was going to say and what happens in between then and now while Lucifer is dealing with his dad returning.

Modrovich: Yeah and if he was gonna say it. Is he going to say it right when time resumes is the question or do these new state of events going to derail everything? 

Is there a time jump at all or does 5B pick up right at that exact moment?

Henderson: We will start back right after the end of 5A. 

Modrovich: Yeah, direct pickup.  


Why does Lucifer struggle with saying those three words so much?

Modrovich: That's his journey. I do feel like we can't totally answer that because that is Lucifer's journey the entire season -- and really almost the entire series. He's trying. He starts off the selfish, rebellious child who feels like he's been wronged and is waiting for somebody to love him when really what he needs to do is figure out how to love somebody else. That's what we will explore very deeply in 5B. 

Can you tease any major Deckerstar moments in 5B? Will we see them actually dating?

Henderson: Ildy and I are the biggest fans of the show. We also want the Deckerstar moments. We also want the moments of them together, as much as we also love to tear them apart. So much of what we try to do is try to give ourselves those moments that we know the fans will love while also continuing to explore the journey of a devil who gets in his own way more often than he might like. So much of the show is we are our own worst enemy -- and that's both Lucifer and Chloe on this journey. Sometimes our insecurities, our issues, they get in our way. We want to explore that while still giving the fans the Deckerstar goodies that they love because we love them too. 

Modrovich: The trick is always to not fall in the Moonlighting trap, right? But also to be realistic because nobody just suddenly lives happily ever after. There's misunderstandings. There's ups and downs. Staying realistic also is important.

Dan finally finds out Lucifer's the Devil and had an aggressive, violent reaction to the truth. Why was that the direction that you felt he should take with that moment?

Henderson: One of the things we always do is we list how the different characters react to Lucifer and we want to make sure that every single one feels different. With Dan, we realized Dan would find out via the way Michael wanted him to find out. So a lot of it is Michael's manipulations put into place. One of our episodes in 5B is an episode that really digs into Dan because Dan is the one character that we haven't had an episode focused on.

Modrovich: Boy, do we focus on him. 

Henderson: We have an episode that is all Dan all the time and it is glorious. It's amazing and one of the things we love is we love torturing Dan as a character. I think that's part of it too. Kevin is so funny when he plays Dan tortured that we lean into that, so that was a big part of it -- just the fun of Dan suffering. 

How would you describe season 5B?

Henderson: Let's just say that season 5B is our most emotional season of the series so far -- our most emotional chunk for all of the darkness in 5A. Lightness is mixed in but I feel like 5A started a little darker. 5B will both be both brighter and even darker still and it's always darkest before the dawn.

Is Michael still the big bad in 5B or are other villains to be expected? 

Modrovich: He does not go away, we'll put it that way, but there are other very bad characters. 

Henderson: To a certain extent, the antagonist is God in as much as he is the person that Lucifer really wants to have a talk with and that becomes a big part of the conversation too because every time we bring in a new character, they're not necessarily the big bad we see them as. They're the hero of their story who is directly up against our hero and with God there's no greater person Lucifer wants to punch in the face and give a hug, even though so much of it was really supercharging Lucifer for that moment. And finally having this opportunity to speak to the figure that's been so mysterious and frustrating his whole life. Dennis is in the first five minutes of the season and then he's gone for the rest of the season. 


Modrovich: No!

Henderson: (Laughs.) You don't cast Dennis and not have [him around]. He's amazing. He's wonderful and talented.

Modrovich: He's so good. I wish he was God. Since the beginning, I feel it's true of 5B especially, is that the giant foil is Lucifer himself. He's his own worst enemy. God's presence exacerbates that and Michael's presence exacerbates that. How is he getting in his own way? That's a lot of the journey of 5B.

The first half of Lucifer season 5 is streaming now on Netflix.

The interview was edited and condensed for length and clarity. 

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